Brett Vibber: These guys are all wearing long black pea coats-

Delo: Totally.

Brett Vibber: ... and black hats, and things like that. I just remember one day stopping at a corner, walking to work, and just looking at everyone on all the corners, and I'm like, "I don't fit in here. That's totally cool."

Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bar and Restaurant Podcast, where hospitality lovers come to listen and learn with expert, David DeLorenzo.

Delo: What's up? The Delo here, and I am excited to have Brett Vibber. How are you?

Brett Vibber: Good. How are you?

Delo: You excited?

Brett Vibber: I'm jacked. You know me.

Delo: I can tell below that amazing shirt that you have on. Show that to the screen. If you are listening-

Brett Vibber: Bob Ross.

Delo: If you're listening, describe that shirt for the listeners.

Brett Vibber: In a nutshell, I think it's we're all going to make mistakes, and we're all capable of fixing mistakes.

Delo: Absolutely.

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: That was one of the most iconic painters around ... What the hell was his name again?

Brett Vibber: Bob Ross.

Delo: Bob Ross. Thank you. Yeah. My Bob Ross history is a little bit behind. I remember the first time that I met you, it was at Devour two, three years ago?

Brett Vibber: Two, yeah, three years ago.

Delo: Maybe three years. Yeah, something like that. What was so great about it is I was walking around. I was a sponsor of the event, I was walking around posting stuff, doing this and that. You had reached out to me after the event and said, "Dude, I like your vibe. You support local, you do this, you do that." Ever since then, we've just been friends. We've been stalking each other online and doing this, and then we've done a little bit of work together on the insurance aspect of things. But I think most importantly, just been a real supportive system for each other, whether it be working out or any of that sort of stuff.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, absolutely.

Delo: I will venture to say I'm going to give you the title of Arizona Indiana Jones of food.

Brett Vibber: Perfect.

Delo: How's that?

Brett Vibber: I willingly accept it.

Delo: Yeah. You are so the Indiana Jones. We'll get into that in a little bit. But you're native Arizonan, correct?

Brett Vibber: I am.

Delo: Yeah?

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Where did you grow up?

Brett Vibber: I grew up in South Tempe. I went to Corona del Sol, and yeah, McClintock, Warner area when it looked a little bit different than it does nowadays.

Delo: Just a little bit, right? Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, my parents just finally moved out of the old neighborhood and relocated permanently to Colorado, so I have a lot of family up in the area. My brother and sister already up there, so they made that jump here just a few weeks ago. But that was my last personal connection to the old neighborhood. We usually still went down there on Sundays, and had a swim, and Barro's Pizza, and-

Delo: They were in the same house?

Brett Vibber: They sold their old house just a few years ago, the big house, but then stayed in the same neighborhood and whatnot. Yeah, I think they just got tired finally of the Arizona summer and-

Delo: They're done with it.

Brett Vibber: ... they were digging Denver, and they're there all the time anyways. We took the family up there, so it's a pretty natural evolution. I've almost made the jump to the Colorado State a few times, so I can appreciate that.

Delo: I'm sure you can. But your heart and your soul is still here in native Arizona.

Brett Vibber: Always going to be, no matter where I am, no matter where I've been, over the course of the years, and I've been blessed to travel the world cooking for one reason or another, but there was always something about coming home to cook. That ties into just the ingredients I like using, and the dirt roads I'm familiar with, and that nostalgic feel of I get to share part of my family's past and my family's story with every foraged ingredient that's out there that it all came from my dad taking us somewhere.

Delo: Right. Before that, it started with your grandparents, right? You've been cooking-

Brett Vibber: Yeah, my grandma and my mom were always cooking, always cooking. I can remember making pasta for the first time with my grandma. I can remember just every single day, which was torture as a wrestler, but every single day coming home, my mom would have fresh baked cookies, or muffins, or brownies, or-

Delo: What are you doing? I got to make weight.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, yeah. My dad just as an ex-wrestler and a current coach, he would just have his fill of it, and he wasn't cutting weight. He didn't have to make any weight, so I'm sure that was just a glorious thing to come home to everyday for him. We all have these different viewpoints on that. It was torture coming home. The garage smelled like brownies before you even got inside, or chocolate chip cookies, or just the list goes on.

Delo: You got to stop with that.

Brett Vibber: It just drive you nuts.

Delo: Your dad was a wrestling coach at Corona?

Brett Vibber: Yeah, football, wrestling, track.

Delo: Okay, football, wrestling and track. He coached you?

Brett Vibber: He did. Yeah.

Delo: How was that?

Brett Vibber: I've had that question thousands of times, I think, throughout my life. I loved it. I never knew anything other than growing up with him being my coach. He was our coach, and as far as mentors go in the wrestling world, he was it for me from the time I was able to walk and [inaudible 00:05:25] all around in the wrestling room, which was pretty damn early. [crosstalk 00:05:29].

Delo: How did he like it?

Brett Vibber: I'm sure that he enjoyed it less than I enjoyed it.

Delo: Right.

Brett Vibber: I can only imagine what it's like to watch, not just your kid in sports, but wrestling is, as he always put it, it's the most intimate sport. You're out there all by yourself, and there's other sports where you're out there all by yourself, but not grappling for success and things like that. It's a lot, and he coached other sports. But it's different losing a wrestling match than a soccer game to me. I know-

Delo: It's horrible.

Brett Vibber: Right. Because when you get to lose as a team, it's one thing. When you lose by yourself, it's all on you, and it's humbling, and there's nothing-

Delo: There's still a team aspect of it that depend on you to win that match.

Brett Vibber: Absolutely. It likens itself to a kitchen because if the saute cook doesn't pull his weight, then the whole kitchen goes down. If the dishwasher doesn't pull his weight, then the whole kitchen goes down. That was always an easy transition for me getting out of sports and into the business, that that always made sense. I got to do my part for the team's better benefit. That's always been what it was with sports growing up. It's a really, really natural transition for me. But yeah, it's different to lose all together with your team than all by yourself.

Delo: Wrestling is definitely the epitome of having discipline skills from the very beginning, because I wrestled in high school as well, and it was hell, it was the worst. But the satisfaction of getting on the mat, and winning a match, and knowing all of that came through, I'm sure you had the episodes of wearing trash bags, and sweating to death.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes fancier trash bags. But yeah.

Delo: Yeah. Fancier trash bags, stuff like that. The bear crawls across the football field, all that sort of stuff. What weight did you wrestle at?

Brett Vibber: My freshman year of high school, 103, and then pretty much 125 the rest of high school. I jumped up to 141 in college.

Delo: That's ninja weight, bro.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. College was a rude awakening because you got into that spot in the lineup where guys were really fast. Lightweights are really fast, heavyweight to really powerful traditionally. If I found myself being a middleweight for the first time where I'm like, "Goddamn, these guys are fast and strong." Also, you got to put it together a little differently by the time you get to college.

Delo: What college did you wrestle at?

Brett Vibber: Pima in Tucson.

Delo: Okay. Yeah. Did you have aspirations to go any further after college, or?

Brett Vibber: Probably when I was younger, but by the time, excuse me, by the time college was wrapping up, my body was telling me it was about the end of my wrestling days. Three knee surgeries, and I broke my ankle in college, and shoulder starts hurting into your mid-20s that a lot of upper level athletes, not only are they talented and highly skilled, and big, fast, and strong, there's a lot of luck involved with staying healthy and not tweaking your ankle in a way that you don't-

Delo: [inaudible 00:08:34].

Brett Vibber: Right. You're not affected the rest of your life. You look at it most high level athletes had that level of luck. It's really tough to continue to come back after injury after injury after injury.

Delo: Have you watched that Netflix story on Michael Jordan.

Brett Vibber: I have not. I listened to a bit of it while-

Delo: How that dude kept it together. You know what I'm saying?

Brett Vibber: Right.

Delo: Just at that level at all times.

Brett Vibber: You see, he never had a major injury that-

Delo: Nothing that ended his career. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: ... sidelined him out for a season. There's probably guys that were much, much, much, much better than Michael Jordan that didn't get to put together the whole game by at the end of it. I was thankful for my time on the mat, and wrestlers always know there's no next level really. A couple of guy lucky guys end up on the Olympic team, but there's not-

Delo: It's not the WWF.

Brett Vibber: ... there's no NFL. Right. There's no NFL, there's no NBA, there's no professional proper wrestling league here in the United States where most wrestlers are in college to get an education, and they know they're moving on, and there's an endgame coming.

Delo: Now, when I was 13, I wanted to be The Ultimate Warrior. But that slowly dissipates when you realize that it's all bullshit.

Brett Vibber: Right. Absolutely.

Delo: But it looked cool.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, it definitely was not allowed in our house.

Delo: That's so funny.

Brett Vibber: I had a lot of guys, a lot of college teammates went on to MMA careers, and for me, someone was just asking me about it the other day. It was all wrestling strategy and wrestling's mental and physical, and to get into a cage with someone and just be upset for nothing, to go fight for that, it didn't really make sense for my head. Don't get me wrong. I was enjoyed a nice brouhaha, but that's because you're upset. It was hard for me. I didn't mean to be pumped up out of my mind on crazy music to go out and wrestle a successful wrestling match. Actually, calm peaceful time before that, and maybe a little bit of self-reflection and things like that before a match where a fight is anger-driven. I wasn't an anger-driven athlete. Never.

Delo: Well, I'm sure a lot of that has helped you in the furthering of your career, being a chef, running restaurants, and doing that sort of thing. Before we jump into that, so Miles and Mackenzie, right, six and eight. Is that-

Brett Vibber: Yeah. Creeping closer and closer to seven and nine, couple of months here.

Delo: Yeah. What's it like being a father?

Brett Vibber: Life changing. I think lots of us, not just in the industry, but people in general can sympathize or empathize, and still what your 20s or late teens are like, and I was a wild animal. There's no two ways around that.

Delo: Makes two of us. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, there was trials and tribulations from my mid-teens until around the time my daughter was born, and it just kind of changes your ... not kind of, it totally changes your perspective on what was important, what's now become important. I live for these kids. It doesn't matter what job I do in the world, I love my job, and it's a passion-driven career. Obviously, the money doesn't matter. It's just, it's all about the love of it. But I could walk away from it in a heartbeat if it meant a better life for my kids.

Delo: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brett Vibber: No question. That would be different speaking than before having kids. I even did the stereotypical thing of a chef in his coming up years of blowing off friends, and blowing off family, and blowing off weddings, and blowing off events, and just to continue that career. That kind of shifted for me a bit as the kids were born.

Delo: It sounds like you definitely have a unique perspective on reading through your history and understanding what you've been doing, and working through. You started at Barro's Pizza in Chandler?

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Yeah. Going in and working pizza, and doing all that, did you get the bug from then to say, "I want to move up in this industry." Or was it just a job at that point?

Brett Vibber: No, not at all. No, I had the bug before that. I was waiting to be old enough for them to hire me. My brother worked for a couple of different Barro brothers, but gave me the job location that's long since moved there. They're really good at moving up and making nicer locations, in case no one has noticed that over the past 25 years, that they were all in strip malls when I started working for them. Now, they're full blown restaurants, where I didn't ... Speaking of Bob Ross, I'm wearing the shirt today, but I didn't grew up watching any cartoons or playing any video games. I love Bob Ross, I love Ming Tsai, all those guys around PBS, Graham Kerr and Julia Child. I watched that stuff on Saturday mornings, and then I went and played outside. Both of those things still tie into exactly what I'm doing today, is I'm in the kitchen, or I'm playing outside.

Delo: You haven't really changed much at all. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Not at all. You just have to figure out a way to continue-

Delo: I feel that vibe.

Brett Vibber: ... the boy scout vibe, and the fire, knives, and foraging, and digging in the dirt, and camping, and they paid me for it.

Delo: Yeah. No.

Brett Vibber: What better way? It's funny and ironic of what you said at the beginning, but I didn't idolize any chefs growing up. I never really idolized any chefs throughout my career. A lot of mentors and a lot of guys that, men and women that helped me along the way and create the skills that I possess now, but, man, I loved Indiana Jones. I loved it.

Delo: It's the best.

Brett Vibber: It's a hands on do you want to learn in the classroom, or do you want to learn touching, seeing, feeling, tasting. That's all I ever want.

Delo: If I could have coffee with one person right now, it would be Harrison Ford.

Brett Vibber: Absolutely.

Delo: It would be like, "Dude, you're Han Solo and Indiana Jones." How amazing is that?

Brett Vibber: [crosstalk 00:14:52] two of the coolest guys ever.

Delo: Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Brett Vibber: Right, right.

Delo: When did you go to Chicago? Was that early?

Brett Vibber: No. 2011, right after when my daughter was born.

Delo: Okay.

Brett Vibber: We moved to Chicago and opened up the second Roka Akor location. I opened Scottsdale location years before.

Delo: Gotcha. Okay.

Brett Vibber: Stayed for about a year, and then went out about my own business for a while, and then was asked to come be the executive chef in Chicago. That sounded, again, like something I needed to touch, see, and feel for myself.

Delo: And the Chicago scene completely different from Phoenix, or?

Brett Vibber: Oh, my God, night and day. The Chicago industry scene, and in general, just the Chicago, you couldn't find two places that are more polar opposite.

Delo: Complete opposite.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. From one another. I live downtown, right downtown in the West Loop, and as I walked, I walked with the businessmen to work every morning. They were all getting off the train.

Delo: Do you have your knives with you?

Brett Vibber: In my backpack, but I always looked funny because I wore a bright orange Columbia jacket, and I wear bright tan Carhartt pants, because in the forest and in the snow, you don't want to blend in. These guys are all wearing long black pea coats, and black hats, and things like that. I just remember one day stopping at a corner walking work, and just looking at everyone on all the corners, and I'm like, "I don't fit in here. That's totally cool."

Delo: Yeah, yeah. You're you.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. I was talking to another friend about that this morning. It's nice to be you. A lot of people spend years and years and years trying to be the person that they think other people want them to be when I don't really care.

Delo: It's amazing when people get, I guess situated in an idea that they have to be something or somebody else. There could be many different configurations of why that is. It could be money, it could be peer groups, it could be all sorts of different stuff. It's nice to be, in my opinion, for me what works, it's nice to be freed of that. It sounds like you're freed of that as well. You just out and did your thing, and yeah.

Brett Vibber: It's just as long as the people that are closest to you are happy, and you're happy with that, then for me, and it ties back into my kids, as long as my family's happy, then you know what, I'm totally at peace with that and totally cool.

Delo: How long was the stint in Chicago?

Brett Vibber: Five years.

Delo: Oh, five years. And your kids were-

Brett Vibber: Almost five years.

Delo: ... with you that time or?

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Okay, cool.

Brett Vibber: I was still married.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Then yeah, when we came back was mid 2015, I guess.

Delo: That's when you went over to Cartwright's?

Brett Vibber: Yeah, I did a couple of different jobs around town, just a couple of consults, and just feeling out. Phoenix is a hard place to come from the outside in, or even just to be with a lot of executive positions open. I'd always notice, even growing up in Phoenix, that most head chefs owned their restaurants. To come back and just from Chicago, from afar and see who's hiring an executive chef, and even being a native, I don't really have much of a rapport in Phoenix at this point. I knew the owners of Tonto and Cartwright's at that point in time, and I finished up a consult, and Elena and I had actually been talking about was Phoenix the right decision for us, coming from Chicago? The consults are up now, and I've got a couple job offers in California, and I don't want to live in California. I've done that. I didn't like it when I was younger for a number of reasons, and nothing seemed or felt right about it until really just randomly one night, the old owners called me up and said, "Hey, you told us to call you if we ever needed a chef at Cartwright's, and we need a chef at Cartwright's." I said, "Okay."

Brett Vibber: They said, "Well, we've got a Facebook ad, or a Craigslist ad, or something like that up," and I said, "Well, you can take it down, you just called me." I said, "Save your $25 or whatever it is, take it down. I'll be up tomorrow." We had a good chat and talked about it. Even at that point, I knew that they were looking for an exit strategy as well, so that it was possibly a long term deal. Within a year and a half or so, we purchased it and ran with it.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: You did. I remember going up there for Thanksgiving. How many heads would you do on a Thanksgiving? How many-

Brett Vibber: Average, about 750.

Delo: That's crazy to me.

Brett Vibber: That's crazy.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. People as, about the prep and whatnot. It starts like mid through October, and different aspects of it, of just making sure the turkeys are in the right place, and just do I ... You can't be shorted on potatoes and something like that, but you need this restaurant for ... It's always a traditional Thanksgiving dinner, or you could usually have a choice of steak, or a choice of fish for those that didn't like turkey. But fairly a traditional type dinner. A lot of ingredients that we didn't typically always have it, or I'm calling someone looking. Really, I don't really reach outside of my local area very well, find 300 pounds of local potatoes.

Brett Vibber: Arizona is a feat to be had, so it might come from a little bit of Crooked Sky and a little bit over at Mortimer, and a little bit over here, but to get it all together is just nuts. Even the turkeys, we started the topknot farms down in Benson in the springtime for the following Thanksgiving. There's a lot of planning that goes into it if you can actually talk the talk and walk the walk. You can't bail on that philosophy and that standard and say, "Oh, shit, I got to call Sysco." I'm like, "No, stay true to my word."

Delo: Yeah, there's not many chefs that do stay true to their word.

Brett Vibber: It's tough.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: It's tough, and that's how then you start getting greater. That's why I don't have very many potatoes on my menu quite often, and probably, more native starches that I can get from the ladies down at Ramona Farms, that makes more sense to me.

Delo: Yeah. It's just such a beautiful thing to hear you say and to really interpret and analyze as I sit here and I listen to you. I always knew what you were about from a distance and seeing on your Facebook and Instagram and all the different stuff that you do. But to really put that into context, in a menu on a restaurant that serves a shit ton of people all the time, and you have stayed 100% to your word to do the best that you can to create local and bring that, obviously, it's very important to you. Do you think by doing a lot of that, there's a lot of change that can come to Arizona that you can rub off on other people to really make that movement happen?

Brett Vibber: Yeah. Why Cartwright's worked for me to go be the chef as I was trying my hardest to get out of corporate American restaurant world, that part of my career had come to a screeching halt where-

Delo: There wasn't a passion for it anymore.

Brett Vibber: No. I end up in this discussion often with people. It was great at that part of your career to say like, "Hey, let's get 250 pounds of bluefin tuna flown in from Spain tomorrow." That was cool. That goes back to you said you can't pinpoint what are you looking for that's making you happy? Well, at that point in time, it was spending a bunch of money and making a bunch of money.

Delo: Maybe partying?

Brett Vibber: Absolutely partying. It's Chicago buddy.

Delo: Oh, hell yeah.

Brett Vibber: Before Chicago, it was-

Delo: You're what, mid 20s, 30s.

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Before Chicago, it was LA, and before LA, it was Panama City.

Delo: 100%, right.

Brett Vibber: It was, yeah, your focuses end up on different things. Again, yeah, probably as I got older, and parting ways kind of burned out of me. You start seeing like, "You know what, I'm having an idea of how I want to create food, and I'm having a scope and a vision of where I want to be with this thing." Like we had talked about before, is that that's what brings me ... That was always in my heart about Arizona, is if I can go back to Arizona, I already know ranchers, I already know farmers. I already have a network. I know where to find mushrooms all the time. I know where to find blackberries. I know how to use all this through my dad, and boy scouts, and then just self-education, continuing those roots that were planted young, it made sense to come back here to do the restaurant. Cartwright's kind of already had that framework for a little more Cowboy's Steakhouse [inaudible 00:23:55] when I-

Delo: Very set up for. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: ... right, when I first took over. But was the perfect shell for how I wanted to just release the ideas, I guess, to the valley where ... I think I have seen it rub off. Just because you have chefs that say like, "Hey," they want to be hyper local as well. I guess some of my mushroom hunting friends that aren't chefs that they get upset if you tell someone else a place where you found some-

Delo: Where you can get the mushrooms at.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, but you know what, that's also someone showed them at one point how to do it, and someone showed me at one point how to do it. If someone's actually being passionate and wants to learn, I'll tell you what, I've probably taken 20 or 25 different industry professionals between bartenders that are looking for something different, or brewers that are looking at something different. We had the Helio guys out with us a couple of summers ago just looking around to see what else can we-

Delo: [inaudible 00:24:52].

Brett Vibber: Yeah, same. What else can we do? I've got a couple of friends that are chefs that are with us often, and that makes for even more collaboration in the end.

Delo: As we dive into forging, is what you're talking about right now, for people listening, what in Arizona can you get a surplus of? It's like yesterday, I saw you picking blackberries and mushrooms. What else is out there that people probably just don't even know?

Brett Vibber: Everything, thousands and thousands of things. What's beautiful about Arizona is we're split in half. We've got the Sonoran Desert, and we've got the Colorado Plateau. Arizona has just the same, if not more of that food diversity, that wild food diversity because one, the Sonoran Desert has a number, a number of edible items that no one else has on Earth. To speak to that, to start is every desert's an ancient ocean. It just depends on how long that ocean's been extinct-

Delo: Interesting.

Brett Vibber: ... and what kind of life that is left in it. Sonoran Desert was one of the last ancient oceans. You look out at this desert, and it's not the Sahara, and it's not the Gobi, and it's not the Mojave Desert. It's not Sandy dunes as far as the eye can see. It's vibrant, it is full of life. Sometimes that life is just under the surface, or it's just trapped inside of a plant. But the Sonoran Desert has more flora and fauna than anywhere else in the world. It's just a matter of being educated and figuring that out.

Brett Vibber: I think that's also part of the fun of ... The fun and joy of presenting food this way to people, is that we've made it super complicated, super complicated. When I'm out, some of our bigger things from the Sonoran Desert would be cholla buds, prickly pear, saguaro fruit, barrel cactus fruit. But in turn, that means I don't use any other seeds, except cactus seeds anymore either. The seeds of the cactus are full of antioxidants and proteins. That's the other thing, is most of this food is, in my eyes, or my opinion, nearly medicinal. It's good for you. Good food for you is going to be good for your body. They go hand in hand. It's not rocket science here.

Brett Vibber: Food that grows close to you is probably going to be better for you than food that you've had from somewhere else. Your body craves and wants to eat what it's adapted to the area and the climates, the geography that it's adapted to. Why wouldn't you eat the way that indigenous people ate? Can you present it in a different way? Of course you can, because we worked in Japanese cuisine, and Italian cuisine, and American cuisine, and so now you can pull different regions application with our ingredients. Maybe we love robotic grills, like in Japanese food, but to have it with venison, and sauteed mushrooms, and butter that you churn from local milk, and berry sauce that you picked right next to where the venison was found, and right on top of where you picked your mushrooms. That's something beautiful.

Delo: Is there any way to be a chef and a business owner, and to be able to do all that, and stay true to your heart, and make any fucking money?

Brett Vibber: No.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: No.

Delo: I think that's what the big problem is in today's society.

Brett Vibber: Yes, definitely.

Delo: You talk about the Syscos and the Shamrocks and all that. They are what is needed for a lot of these people to be in business and do their thing. But wow, how cool would it be to have a place? Is there going to be a place called WILD?

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: How cool would it be to have a place like that, where-

Brett Vibber: I think we've figured out a model as to, excuse me, how to make it ... I don't want to be the all the way negative guy. There's no way to become rich that way. To keep the business sustainable, yeah, and to ... That's the drive behind closing Cartwright's, shocked some people, but usually, to give the story behind it, people say, "Ah, yeah, that makes more sense." For me in 2020, or 2019 rather, Cartwright's was the same size as Roka Akor in Chicago, square footage and seating.

Delo: Okay. I didn't know that. Wow.

Brett Vibber: Downtown Chicago has a bit more foot traffic and just a bit more traffic in general. It didn't make sense to talk about the sustainability on this food side that we're so passionate about while not being financially sustainable, while continuing not to ... It's very, very challenging to fill up a restaurant in Cave Creek with 165 seats night after night after night after night. The idea was I already wanted to start a farm, whether it was going to backup Cartwright's or a different business venture. It had just gotten to a point where this is a good time to do it. We're not in debt. We're not upside down or anything with money. This is a good time to just ...

Delo: It was good for all parties.

Brett Vibber: Right. Stop the partnership. Business partner wanted to do different things. I was just dying inside for this tiny little restaurant, just a tiny little restaurant. We still have the core group of everyone that worked at Cartwright's for the most part existing under WILD. Jaren was my sous-chef for years and years and years, but now he's become my business partner. We've been to Chicago and back together, opened Roka here in Scottsdale together 14 years ago, 13 years ago. He and I have been not only chef and sous-chef for years and years, but clearly, you become pretty damn good friends over that course of time.

Delo: You know how to read each other.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, absolutely. In our food progression, our thoughts and our outlooks have progressed and evolved at the exact same time, where Jaren's Navajo, in his ... This was coming back full circle to his roots as well. It made sense as we closed Cartwright's for me not to be the only owner of the new restaurant. If I was moving on without my previous business partner, I don't want to be the only owner. I want my bar manager to have ownership. I want the sous-chef to have ownership. Instead, we don't need a sous-chef anymore if we got two chefs in the building. We toyed around before these last five months with a couple of different locations. The idea was to get it more centralized and smaller. That was it.

Brett Vibber: In turn, as all of this is going on, The Scott Foundation, who I've worked with for a long time, their ultimate goal was always a boutique resort and hotel, where the kids that are aging out of the foster system have an ability to intern in and/or actually get paid to live and work on the hotel's property, whether it's on our farm, or whether it's on some side of the hospitality. That plan came just snowballing through this last spring, where it was kind of a five-year plan six months ago, and it's a go, go, go plan right now.

Delo: Wow.

Brett Vibber: Looking at a space, it's about 80 acres, and again, back north of Cave Creek. But I feel comfortable about that, because it's tied into a hotel in a resort, where I know that I'm going to have occupancy on the property all the time, and I'm not just waiting for transient traffic to come through randomly.

Delo: That's so cool.

Brett Vibber: It also ties together all of my dreams of what I want to do, is have my livestock and my farm right on the property. We're test piloting this right now on an acre property in north Scottsdale. Building a mini farm, building a commercial kitchen, building an outdoor dining area where we can for the next year or two, while this property gets built, just continue to test by continue to have collaboration dinners, and the kids will have ... The culinary side of The Scott Foundation is called the WILD Kids Culinary Academy. This will actually let me do everything that I ever wanted to do, and farm, and ranch, and have that directly tied to our kitchen or menu all the time, ride out where we can forage the desert whenever we need, close enough that we can jump up into the forest, which is a huge reason of why I live in New River. I'm closer to the forest than everyone else.

Brett Vibber: It just brings it all full circle to me. I can continue to teach these kids that are coming to me when they're 12, 13, 14 years old, and I've been through my whole first group of them on their three year block. Those 18 and 19 year olds, they babysit our kids, they-

Delo: That's so-

Brett Vibber: ... help me on any event that I need help on. They're qualified skilled cooks. In turn, Jaren and I will be able to run the restaurant with kids that are in our academies.

Delo: That you've helped.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. I think we get to hit all the nails on the head that we want. We'll open our new restaurant in a year and a half or two. That gives us plenty of time to be prepping mentally and things like that. It's a huge undertaking with the whole resort where there won't be a golf course, there'll be gardening classes, and where there won't be, I don't know, something else fancy at a hotel we'll have forging classes, or we intend on having Jeeps that we can take people on outdoor tours from.

Delo: It's amazing.

Brett Vibber: That way, you can see what your food was that morning. You can be interactive, and we've been doing that a little bit more, Jaren and I taking people on campouts, and taking people out on expeditions because for years people have asked me to do it. But having the old restaurant open seven days a week-

Delo: You're a slave to the restaurant. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: ... 364 days a year, you just don't have the time to take on any other project. In this downtime, if you will, I feel like I'm busier than I ever have been, but in this time that I don't have a restaurant, and the new restaurant, I definitely won't have open every single night, and that gives us time, that gives staff time to get things done, either as a family or as a crew where Jaren and I right now, we're just canning, and jarring, and dehydrating, and preserving everything.

Delo: Well, that's people can we'll be able to come to your spot and pick up stuff that you've canned and [crosstalk 00:35:44].

Brett Vibber: Absolutely. Yeah, so-

Delo: ... wild organic.

Brett Vibber: ... at that point, there'll be a farmers market, obviously, on the property-

Delo: That's amazing.

Brett Vibber: ... where again, all these things that I've done or dealt with in the satellite type situations where I'm totally stoked to have at all this.

Delo: I'm excited about this.

Brett Vibber: Even if it's spread out over 80 acres, I don't have to drive here for this and drive here for that, or source this from here and source that from there, where it's-

Delo: There's a need for it. People right now, with everything, with the stuff that's going on in the world period and people ... I think grasping to some sort of understanding that being healthy is a huge plus, and you can offset some of your, let's just say habitual things that you've done that have given you high blood pressure, or made you overweight, or that sort of thing by just finding really great places and educational places to learn how to eat better and [crosstalk 00:36:44].

Brett Vibber: Absolutely. To make it into not a forced educational type situation, but where people are having fun.

Delo: People love it. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: It's great.

Delo: Who doesn't want to go in the woods?

Brett Vibber: Do you know how many people over the course of the spring have called me and asked me how to help them with gardening and farming and foraging? At one point, I was like, "Sorry, man, I'm looking out for myself right now."

Delo: I know.

Brett Vibber: "We're getting the thing planted as fast as we could."

Delo: The world's ending. [crosstalk 00:37:07].

Brett Vibber: Yeah. "I don't know. Plant on all these zucchinis. Try your best." Yeah. But that just goes to show that we've lost something that's vital and super important to humanity, is that connection with food, the actual connection with food. I talk to people all the time. They're like, "Oh, I can't hear about a cow being killed." "You're eating a steak right now. You have to honor that animal. That's not doing it any honor or any service by not appreciating the whole line." I know it's hard for some people, but in general that, man, I want to raise my own livestock so that I can make sure they're harvested sustainably and ethically and morally. While yes, that part's hard for some people, it's also a huge important part of connecting to the food. I had a friend that was, or is vegan that participated in lamb slaughter a couple years ago, and she forced herself to watch it. Because that was important, I guess, for her to see all the-

Delo: Very emotional. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Definitely. It is an emotional thing. I commercial fish almost every summer, not the summer because they don't want me in Canada, but I can appreciate that this summer. But that, you're killing fish all day long.

Delo: Right.

Brett Vibber: The idea is I don't want the fish to suffer though. How am I doing this ethically, and sustainably, and approaching it with a moral compass where I'm not getting any sadistic kicks out of it. It's an honor thing. You can bring it back. I'll tell you what, when you catch that fish yourself, you bring it all the way back from Canada, you don't want to waste one bit of it.

Delo: No, I'm sure.

Brett Vibber: For years, we've made all of our soy sauce, instead of with bonito flakes that I have to order from Japan, I bring back all the salmon every year. We smoke and dry all those bones, and we put that into our soy sauce rather than bonito flakes.

Delo: Absolutely amazing. You're like a Jedi of cooking.

Brett Vibber: Well, we've touched on Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

Delo: Yeah. No, well, go figure.

Brett Vibber: You know where my head was as a youngster?

Delo: Well, as we talked earlier, we're both '80s butt-rock as well. I guess putting all the terms together is not the best.

Brett Vibber: I've been on a kick the last few days.

Delo: That is amazing. Are there any good fish in Arizona?

Brett Vibber: Trout.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Okay.

Brett Vibber: Predominantly, at Cartwright's, we'd get the trout from the Oak Creek Trout Farm.

Delo: Yeah. You did sushi at Cartwright's. I remember that.

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Yeah. Which was kind of weird when I went up there, because I've been going there for years, then all of a sudden there's sushi on the menu at Cartwright's. I'm like, "What the fuck?"

Brett Vibber: That's another part of getting into a smaller, more intimate spaces, connection and stories behind it. Because if you don't get the whole story, then it does seem like, "What the hell was sushi doing on the menu, and where'd this guy come from?" For me, it obviously came from years in Japanese food. On top of it, people ask like, "If you're so local and everything's wild and foraged, how do you have so much seafood on your menu?" Well, I'm wearing the hat right now. I work with these guys every summer. IT's the only seafood ... I wouldn't say only, but predominantly the only seafood I use because I've been on all their boats, and I know how it all works. That's stuff that I've caught all of it. I think that story holds up very well to bringing it back every year. Somehow for me, everything I forage out of the desert tastes good on raw fish.

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. I've told people this a couple times, and some people have said, "Oh, that makes sense," and other people have looked at me like, "What the hell is this guy thinking up here?" I think that the desert stuff goes with seafood very, very well, because again, in the big scheme of things, this desert is not that far removed from being an ocean. How long have those plants evolved? Or how far have they actually evolved from when it was something that was actually with fish?

Delo: Yeah. The whole educational portion of what you state there, I think even people listening here are kind of like, "Wait a minute. Oh, wow. Arizona was an ocean at one point, and [crosstalk 00:41:25]."

Brett Vibber: Right, and not as long ago as when you look at the big map.

Delo: Yeah, yeah.

Brett Vibber: [crosstalk 00:41:30] timeline.

Delo: A typical day in foraging, and since you live close to the forest over there, so you just pack it up, pack the dog or dog. What do you have, dogs or dog, or?

Brett Vibber: I have one that-

Delo: Yeah, one that-

Brett Vibber: ... one that works me.

Delo: ... one that works-

Brett Vibber: Three that I possess, one that works for us.

Delo: Got it. Do you pack up the kids sometimes?

Brett Vibber: If they're around.

Delo: If they're around. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: [crosstalk 00:41:50].

Delo: And then you just head up. Is it just a one day thing, or do you some camp it, or?

Brett Vibber: It's different for different seasons. If you start the regular calendar year say in January, as far as forest trips, there's nothing really producing in the forest. But we're checking snowpack, and we're checking for runoff, and seeing what streams are going to flow well through the springtime because that'll start-

Delo: Producing.

Brett Vibber: ... spurring and, yeah, producing the first of the spring products in the forest. But by late February in the desert, the desert's really starting to produce barrel cactus fruit, and palo verde, and that's pretty typical. Those kinds of mornings, we're in the desert, and it's a springtime. Usually, like a 6:00 AM to noon kind of forage. Our desert spots aren't that far, and honestly, a lot of it gets done on my property nowadays.

Delo: That's cool.

Brett Vibber: We have tons of five acres, but only three that we've committed to fencing and for the farm. The other two will stay wild.

Delo: There's literally no excuses for me to not do this with you.

Brett Vibber: Right.

Delo: Okay.

Brett Vibber: But forest stuff, or say we're on saguaros for about six weeks a year. You get up about 4:00 in the morning, but you're done by about 6:15. As soon as the sun's been up for 35, 40 minutes, you're staring right into that coming up because you're looking at the top of a cactus. Not to mention you're just feeling it go from 97 to 98 to 99 to 101 to 103.

Delo: Real quick.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. At the same time, as soon as the sun comes up, the birds and bugs are just all over, not just fruit. That's every single day for six weeks, but it's only a couple of hours a day. That's all we're on at that point in time. Right now, mushroom season is typically up by 2:00 or 2:30 in the morning, and without having the restaurant right now, we're able to camp a little bit more. But again, we have a lot of plants to take care of. We have the foster foundation that we're committed to, and it's hard to get away for more than one night. Monday morning, Jaren and I left at 4:30 in the morning. We got home around 8:00 at night.

Delo: Do you take naps?

Brett Vibber: No.

Delo: No?

Brett Vibber: No.

Delo: You just got energy?

Brett Vibber: Going.

Delo: God. Good for you.

Brett Vibber: No caffeine though. No caffeine, no caffeine.

Delo: No caffeine?

Brett Vibber: No.

Delo: You're too crazy on caffeine.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, just nuts. If I drink a coke right now, I wouldn't sleep tonight.

Delo: My assumption is you probably cook a lot at home just for you and you're family.

Brett Vibber: We're now than I ever have. But it's funny, a lot of chefs here joke around right now who're like, "I didn't realize I had a kitchen at my house."

Delo: A lot that I've talked to you and realized that. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: But the thing is, with the foraging, there ends up being a lot of times like, "I don't want to go to the restaurant and prep this right now." I'm already at home, or I'd have to drive right past my house to go to the kitchen to prep this." I'm like, "I'll just end up doing it at home, so you end up with morel and spot prawn pasta from time to time.

Delo: Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. It is what it is.

Brett Vibber: Right.

Delo: No cheating, no Chic-fil-A, or?

Brett Vibber: As far as fast food?

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: Not really.

Delo: You're pretty good about it.

Brett Vibber: I used to love it. I got no shame in saying that. But the first year that I commercial fish-

Delo: [inaudible 00:45:17].

Brett Vibber: I ate salmon only for-

Delo: Salmon only? Did you get a mercury test after that?

Brett Vibber: Well, salmon and spot prawns, but only seafood while I was in Canada. I came home and I had asked Elena to give me something to eat on the way to the airport, and she brought me In-N-Out Burger, and I thought like, "Oh, my God, I haven't had a burger in weeks." I ate it, and I was so sick.

Delo: Yeah, because your body's just not using eating.

Brett Vibber: That's probably when I stopped eating that in general. I can't remember the last time I ate [crosstalk 00:45:47].

Delo: Back when I drank a lot, which is well, going on I think seven years, I haven't had fast food, was like-

Brett Vibber: Oh, yeah. Same thing. [crosstalk 00:45:56]-

Delo: ... the cure for the addiction.

Brett Vibber: ... heavy booze. Right. It's filled with oils, and sugars, and synthetic fats. Again, I have a hard time trying to live my whole life this way. I tell people this is stuff I'm trying to teach my kids. It's not a concept for me, it's not a fad for me. It's my life, and that's how food fits into my concept. If I wasn't a cook, I would still be foraging as often as I possibly could, I would still want a commercial fish, I would still ... They're all things that I love doing. This is how I'm living my life, so it makes no sense for me to leave here today and stop over at Chick-fil-A.

Delo: Well, no. You know how the body works, and when it takes in good stuff, and you're able to move and feel good and all that. That's what's so important, I think for people to, when you do open, to go visit your restaurants, see what's going on, and do all that sort of stuff. That's amazing. All right, I got a few quick questions for you. All right, see if you can handle these.

Brett Vibber: Okay.

Delo: Would you rather go to a ... This is a dumb question. I know what your answer is going to be. Would you rather go to a Vegas party or a dude ranch?

Brett Vibber: Dude ranch.

Delo: Yeah. Have you ever been to a dude ranch?

Brett Vibber: I have, and I say that sparingly because a Vegas party is always going to be a good time. In a dude ranch, posers can end up making me [crosstalk 00:47:11].

Delo: Let me rephrase the question. Would rather go to a Vegas party with David Coverdale from Whitesnake?

Brett Vibber: Vegas party with David Coverdale.

Delo: Yeah. Have you ever seen just any weird shit while you were camping?

Brett Vibber: Yes.

Delo: Okay.

Brett Vibber: Non-stop, I think.

Delo: Yeah?

Brett Vibber: There's a lot of weird shit just out in the forest in general. You come across a car door in the middle of the forest. You-

Delo: We're not talking a Bigfoot or anything.

Brett Vibber: No, no. As far as wildlife goes, no, I've not had that fortunate bestowed upon me yet. No, but I think even the weirdest stuff for us is there was a ... I think it was last summer. There was a couple that had overtaken some prison guards or whatever, and they were making their way through the White Mountains. They eventually got captured in Tonto basin or something like that. Jaren and I were out of touch that whole time in the White Mountains, working our way to Tonto basin on mushrooms, berries, and then stopping at our friends in Tonto basin.

Delo: Well, let's clarify, you weren't on mushrooms, you were-

Brett Vibber: Oh, and I know. I have to clarify that all the time. No, when we were on the mushroom forage.

Delo: Right. Gotcha. Okay.

Brett Vibber: But yeah, we shorten it up sometimes. Yeah. Oops. But we were working our way, basic right along their path-

Delo: Oh, my God.

Brett Vibber: ... the whole time where, I don't really worry about wildlife. I worry about-

Delo: People?

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Yeah, I don't blame you there.

Brett Vibber: The dog's there for the wildlife. I guess I'm there for the people.

Delo: How many rattlesnakes have you seen?

Brett Vibber: Ever?

Delo: Yeah, while foraging. Let's go this year too. Okay. That's not bad.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. No, I see them far less often than I feel like other people see them. That's the thing. I don't want a picture of it. I'm not getting a video. It doesn't need to be on my fucking Instagram. I typically try and stay away.

Delo: You don't forage for rattlesnakes?

Brett Vibber: No.

Delo: No.

Brett Vibber: No, I had a sous-chef that used to.

Delo: Gross.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. Not a whole lot of meat.

Delo: Would you rather camp in six feet of snow or Death Valley?

Brett Vibber: Six feet of snow.

Delo: Really.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, easily.

Delo: I want to go to death valley with you. Seriously, I think that'd be kind of cool. Not that we're going to forage anything. I just would like to see.

Brett Vibber: Bring sand back.

Delo: With somebody that's a boy scout.

Brett Vibber: Yeah. I've always wanted to do the ... I don't remember what mountain. I don't know what mountain rises right off of Death Valley, but it's the somewhat famous trail that goes up like 9,000 feet from the desert floor. I've always wanted to do that. But they say it's a little hot.

Delo: Yeah, probably so. Do you prefer being in a tent, camper?

Brett Vibber: Tent. I prefer no tent at all, to clarify, but-

Delo: Just outdoor.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, tent over camper.

Delo: Then going back to wrestling, would you rather do bear crawls or up downs for an hour?

Brett Vibber: For an hour. I was going to say, "For how long?" Shit. I'm trying to remember the pain of each one properly before you answer. I would rather do up downs for an hour.

Delo: Okay.

Brett Vibber: I'm positive I've up downs for an hour.

Delo: Positive, right? Yeah. I get you to come do a Spartan Race with me.

Brett Vibber: Yeah.

Delo: Where can everybody find you, and how did they stay in touch with you.

Brett Vibber: Right now, until we finish the kitchen and dining space at The Scott Foundation, which at that point, we'll have collaboration dinners, every month again, we used to have the guy chef at Cartwright's once a month. We'll kind of expand now as we get the foster foundation. Scott Foundation and WILD is basically melded together, so that I can be associated with these kids.

Delo: Do many people know about this?

Brett Vibber: Melding together?

Delo: Yeah.

Brett Vibber: This is the first time we've talked about it publicly, because we haven't been doing a lot of stuff in public [crosstalk 00:51:09].

Delo: Well, how exciting is that?

Brett Vibber: You hit me up a few weeks ago, so I thought, "Man, I've been having a lot of journalists, and a lot of peers, and a lot of colleagues, and people in the business ask me ask me ask me, and just like you and I talked about before we started like, "Man, I can't even make a plan for next week right now." This makes way more sense than jumping into a brick and mortar, not knowing what the future ... By mean not having to worry about a restaurant right now, I can help other people. That's huge for me.

Delo: And still be involved in food and doing what you love.

Brett Vibber: Oh, absolutely. With The Scott Foundation, we'll take a chef for the whole month, the guest chef. They'll do three cooking classes collaboratively, and then the last week of their involvement will be a dinner that people can buy tickets to. That kitchen being built right now, the Bruce Halle Foundation from Discount Tire gave us $100,000 to build the kitchen.

Delo: Wonderful.

Brett Vibber: As anyone that knows in the business goes, that's a pretty good chunk of change for what we need to do. They're building a ... got local people building, a craftsman blacksmith building the grills, and building ovens, and things like that for us, so that again, like I said, this is kind of a test run a pilot property for what we're going to be doing on a grander scale. I'm excited. In the meantime, we're renovate it a little bit over the next week or so. But we've been doing it to go pop up every single week. But usually, centered around Jaren's brisket or some barbecue of some kind. Next week, we're doing two wash chickens, and I think he said he's coming back with ribs from the reservation. That sounds appetizing.

Delo: You'll continue to do a lot of that stuff. People follow-

Brett Vibber: I'm going to add a farmer's market. For now, I'll just turn wild into a virtual restaurant with the somewhat diverse menu, as well as farm goods and CSA boxes that can be packed up, because I know now as restaurants have started to feel it and have felt it for months and months, a lot of my farmer friends need help. They need to move product, and they're losing animals, they're selling animals less than they paid for them, or they're selling their product for less than it cost to grow it in the first place. Like I said, without needing to worry about said restaurant at the given moment, how can I help those people?

Delo: Yeah, people, it'd be great if they follow you, and they follow the events that you're doing, and they buy from those events, because it not just helps, basically, what you're doing, but it goes down the line.

Brett Vibber: Right. Absolutely.

Delo: Which is amazing. You're great on social media. You're responsive. You do your thing. WILD has its own IG?

Brett Vibber: WILD Arizona Cuisine has its own Instagram. I'm bvibber on Instagram.

Delo: It's pretty much-

Brett Vibber: Yeah, if you want to find Jaren, he's custom 505 because he's from New Mexico and they represent the 505. Other people tell us that too, like isn't part of the Navajo Nation on the New Mexico side?" The Arizona/New Mexico line came way after the Navajo Nation's line.

Delo: Right. Yeah.

Brett Vibber: It's all the same. When you cross over from New Mexico and Arizona on the Nation, you don't see any signs. That's not line to them. They always get a good chuckle out of that. Yeah, that's how you can find any of us. Like I said, it's just a matter of staying busy and not necessarily relevant, but staying busy helps keep the passion going. No matter what it is, my life will always be encompassed with food, and that's always going to be the platform. But how much more of the community can we reach? How much more culture can we affect without just being stuck with your head down seven days a week in a restaurant. That's-

Delo: Well, rest assured, us, me, all of us will be promoting the shit out of whatever it is that you're doing. To keep people in the loop, even through show notes, and just through stuff that will promote here or there, has your doing these educational learning trainings and stuff like that, and doing the forging, and all these things that people that are of interest. I would seriously be like, "Get involved, check it out, even if it's once a month sort of thing."

Brett Vibber: [crosstalk 00:55:25].

Delo: As those things blow up, I do want to announce those and put them out.

Brett Vibber: Yeah, for this year, The Scott Foundation always had an annual party, and it's a animal fashion show. It involves a live auction, involves a silent auction, and it's been at Cartwright's or Westworld for years. This year, we have to go virtual with it. That's a shift for all of us to hopefully deliver 300 meals on September 20th. That's a big one. Then I told you before, I'm going to hike the entire Arizona Trail.

Delo: That's right.

Brett Vibber: Leaving in March, and I'll be back midway through May. I've always wanted to do it, but I have an outlet for it now where it can be to raise money and awareness and [crosstalk 00:56:07]-

Delo: With the foundation.

Brett Vibber: ... Arizona, it's super screwed up system, just like we have a lot of super screwed up systems, and anything we could do to bring awareness and impact to it is huge.

Delo: That's amazing. Do people ever call you Jesus?

Brett Vibber: No.

Delo: No? Okay. You're good, dude. You really are. You're a good dude.

Brett Vibber: I appreciate it.

Delo: This has been awesome. Thank you so much for coming in and doing this.

Brett Vibber: Thanks for having me.

Delo: And driving from New River.

Brett Vibber: Good people, that's the whole thing for me now, I guess nowadays, is surrounding yourself with good people, and then great things happen. One great idea is not as good as 10 great ideas together. I'm just constantly wanting to further my community and that network or-

Delo: Oh, I know you do.

Brett Vibber: ... good people just evolving. It's like a hurricane, man.

Delo: It's awesome.

Brett Vibber: Hurricane of positivity.

Delo: Yeah. No, and it's the same as just as we had talked in beginning the podcast of how we met and just how those energies align together and it's just positive energy. Awesome. Thank you Brett. Subscribe to the BRP, Bar Restaurant Podcast list. We will be giving away some really cool items. I'm going to coerce, is that a right word, Brett into giving us some cool stuff, and other people that we have on the podcast. You can literally win some really awesome stuff from our guest and be a part of a list, and just keep in tune and in touch with everything that we have going on here as we grow this. Thank you everybody for listening. Please, please, please, if you get a chance, leave a five star review. Helps us get some traction. Share this with your friends, and check out our social media outlets @local480, the Local 480 media. You have to check out Eat Drink AZ because she's the bomb and part of our group. Then obviously, @@IAm__Delo, which is my personal Instagram. Yeah, that's it. Thanks for joining us.

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